The Pontic Greeks of the Blacksea region [Archive] (2024)

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Sealin

07-08-2018, 07:24 PM

Everyone can share here everything what has to do with Pontic Greeks. It could be history, pictures of our beautiful places, culture, folk dance, kitchen..

This thread is also open for discussions. One of the reasons why I opened this topic is because of the discussions about it, but in the wrong topic. So, come here and discuss/share information in an respectful way. :rolleyes:

Böri

07-08-2018, 07:45 PM

Are you Pontic Greek? Which district of Turkey are you from?

Sealin

07-08-2018, 07:47 PM

Yes, I am. I'm from Trabzon originally.

Thracian

07-08-2018, 10:07 PM

Do you speak Greek?

DarkSecret

07-08-2018, 10:45 PM

There was a Pontic boy in my high school but they are so few maybe there are even much less Greek speakers than Laz speakers.

Rgvgjhvv

07-09-2018, 02:55 AM

I would love to see MDLP K16 results of anyone who is PART Pontian - not 100%

Sealin

07-09-2018, 07:10 AM

Do you speak Greek?

No. I just know many words, which we automatically use when we speak Turkish. It's most likely the name of food, like Gulia, xavits. Or words which we are using in short conversations. There are people I know who speak it fluently, but not me.

There was a Pontic boy in my high school but they are so few maybe there are even much less Greek speakers than Laz speakers.

The Pontic and Laz languages are literally in danger. The elders speak this language fluently and some of the young too, but not many. If it keeps going like this, it will die. I'm just happy that there are many musicians from Trabzon or Greece who visit Trabzon, and are making songs in the language. They're also working together, which makes me happier. There is an album made, Pontus manzarasi, and it's amazing. This is one of my motivations to learn and speak it fluently. This is also the reason why I came here to see if there are more Pontic Greeks here who could help me out with some things.

I would love to see MDLP K16 results of anyone who is PART Pontian - not 100%

Me too. You can post yours here by the way.

Böri

07-09-2018, 08:57 AM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LxLSyWBuV54

brennus dux gallorum

07-09-2018, 09:23 AM

Better call them "pontian Greeks or black Sea Greeks, not to be confused with the Pontic med type which they rarely/never share (they are usually armenoid, as all people near caucasus)

Thracian

07-09-2018, 09:26 AM

Me too. You can post yours here by the way.

That's great. I hope you will learn the language in the future.

Böri

07-09-2018, 09:29 AM

Better call them "pontian Greeks or black Sea Greeks, not to be confused with the Pontic med type which they rarely/never share (they are usually armenoid, as all people near caucasus)

You don't recognize them as Greeks? But they are no less than 500k in Hellas.
Pontic Greeks, though being genetically far away from actual Greeks, they speak a very old dialect of Greek.

Sora

07-09-2018, 09:30 AM

How many Pontic Greeks live in Eastern Black Sea region? I read that there are 10% Pontic Greeks in Trabzon but how is it trustable I don't know.

Also do you have any Pontic Greek kits? I want to learn about their genetics and how much are they cousins with mainland Greeks.

Vojnik

07-09-2018, 09:32 AM

Christian Turks found it extremely hard when they were forcefully dumped in Macedonia. They experienced alot of abuse:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FwsMG59EALg

Böri

07-09-2018, 09:36 AM

Christian Turks found it extremely hard when they were forcefully dumped in Macedonia. They experienced alot of abuse:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FwsMG59EALg

Pontic Greeks aren't Christian Turks.
Their mother language is Greek.
Karamanlis from Central Anatolia were Christian Turks. They couldn't speak a single word Greek. Being Orthodox, even their bible was Turkish.

Thanas Django

07-09-2018, 09:47 AM

This is the 254th time you post this video in 6 years.

Isn't there a video about Bulgarians who think they are Macedonians fleeing to Melbourne you can post?

brennus dux gallorum

07-09-2018, 09:48 AM

You don't recognize them as Greeks? But they are no less than 500k in Hellas.
Pontic Greeks, though being genetically far away from actual Greeks, they speak a very old dialect of Greek.

Where did you read that I don't recognize them as Greeks? Even though they certainly differ from most of aspects (something that pontian member here have also implied) a core aspect of Greek nation is language

Christian Turks found it extremely hard when they were forcefully dumped in Macedonia. They experienced alot of abuse:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FwsMG59EALg

"Christian turks" were for 50-80 less years under turks than your ancestors
Fyromians are the only people in the world who can't call anyone "turk"

Vojnik

07-09-2018, 09:51 AM

Weren't they just Christenised Laz?

Marmara

07-09-2018, 09:53 AM

Weren't they just Christenised Laz?

Lol no, Laz people used to be Christians as well.

Vojnik

07-09-2018, 09:53 AM

This is the 254th time you post this video in 6 years.

Isn't there a video about Bulgarians who think they are Macedonians fleeing to Melbourne you can post?

This is literally the first time i've ever posted this video. Just found it today.

Böri

07-09-2018, 09:55 AM

Weren't they just Christenised Laz?

Pontic Greeks speak the oldest version of Greek language among living dialects. Other Greek dialects evolved, however Pontic Greek sticked to what was taught to them by the elite coming from Aegean 2300 years ago.
We can presume they aren't real Greeks by looking at their genes, beside phenotype. They are far away from the East Med typical Greeks.
They are like 5%-7% of modern Greece's population, which isnt that few.

Vojnik

07-09-2018, 10:00 AM

Turkish also spoken as home language:

https://i.imgur.com/rcVtHLu.jpg

Böri

07-09-2018, 10:16 AM

Turkish also spoken as home language:

That's right. Many of them also have Turkish surnames as a result of living inside Turks and being led by Turkic ruling stratum. Their language might also be influenced of course. But that's not only them, many of the Asian Greeks who went to Greece in the 1923 population exchange have Turkish family names.
Armenians are another people using Turkish surnames actively with their -yan suffix (Tashjiyan, Ekmekjian, Temirjiyan etc.).
You don't watch World Cup nowadays? Even Croat goalkeeper Subasic's name is Turkish (Subaşı).

Turkish influence isn't enough to make conclusion like you are making.
They speak a very old dialect of Hellenic. Though you are right, they are in reality assimilated natives of East Black Sea.

Sealin

07-09-2018, 10:51 AM

That's great. I hope you will learn the language in the future.

Thank you :)

Tong

07-09-2018, 10:55 AM

Do pontics have a different phenotype from mainland greeks?

brennus dux gallorum

07-09-2018, 11:05 AM

Do pontics have a different phenotype from mainland greeks?
Usually yes
Mainland Greeks are usually med of several types (dinaromed, pontid, atlantomed and gracile), Alpine, dinaric and Nordic, meanwhile pontians are usually armenoid, Asian alpine and east Mediterranid
But they may often overlap

cyberlorian

07-09-2018, 11:11 AM

Usually yes
Mainland Greeks are usually med of several types (dinaromed, pontid, atlantomed and gracile), Alpine, dinaric and Nordic, meanwhile pontians are usually armenoid, Asian alpine and east Mediterranid
But they may often overlap

East Mediterranid is Iranian Mediterranean.

Tauromachos

07-09-2018, 11:43 AM

Do pontics have a different phenotype from mainland greeks?

Not as much as it is fabled in TA

There are distinct Pontic Greek looks but alos many many Pontians who don't look very different from other Greek people.

And Pontian Greeks at least to me look different from general Turks and Anatolians at least the same as they do from Greeks.

Also both, very dark and very light/blond types exist among them

Queen B

07-09-2018, 12:15 PM

This is the 254th time you post this video in 6 years.

Isn't there a video about Bulgarians who think they are Macedonians fleeing to Melbourne you can post?
He is just a troubled individual with inferiority complex.
This is a thread about Pontic Greeks. It is expected to have answers from Greeks and Turks, but a bulgarian in denial is still posting his sh*t.

Do pontics have a different phenotype from mainland greeks?
Not as much as TA makes it to be.

Rgvgjhvv

07-09-2018, 03:48 PM

Turkish influence isn't enough to make conclusion like you are making.
They speak a very old dialect of Hellenic. Though you are right, they are in reality assimilated natives of East Black Sea.

Most all Pontic Greeks in Greece have typical -idis surnames. This was most likely result of 'Hellenizing' their last name as much as they could, so they can fit in more with Greek Mainland society. But you have your more 'exotic' surnames from the region as well such as Hatzipanagiotidou - imagine that!

The -idis suffix is usually an indicator that they're originally from Northern Greece, but I think more-so because many Anatolian Greeks, especially from Pontos, ended up settling there after the population exchange.

Also, not all Pontic Greeks are armenoid phenotype.

NOTE: I think the -idis was put on after the population exchange but I'm not 100% sure on that, to be honest. Perhaps it started before as well.

Marmara

07-09-2018, 03:52 PM

Not as much as it is fabled in TA

There are distinct Pontic Greek looks but alos many many Pontians who don't look very different from other Greek people.

And Pontian Greeks at least to me look different from general Turks and Anatolians at least the same as they do from Greeks.

Also both, very dark and very light/blond types exist among them

Trabzonians in Turkey usually (but not always) have recognizeable distinct phenotypes.

But many Laz people live in Trabzon so i don't know if it's them who has that distinct phenotype.

Queen B

07-09-2018, 03:58 PM

Also, not all Pontic Greeks are armenoid phenotype.

NOTE: I think the -idis was put on after the population exchange but I'm not 100% sure on that, to be honest. Perhaps it started before as well.

A correction :

Turks had no surnames up until required to do so , by law, after 1930+.

Everyone having a surname before that , was usually of non-Turkish origin.

Tauromachos

07-09-2018, 04:01 PM

Trabzonians in Turkey usually (but not always) have recognizeable distinct phenotypes.

But many Laz people live in Trabzon so i don't know if it's them who has that distinct phenotype.

The people in Turkey who descend from Pontic Greeks and are now Turks are distinguished from Laz and call themselfes Rum
and speak Pontic Greek which they call Romeika.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Goq43EcAiq0

Laz is native Georgian tribe they speak Lazuri and it is a Georgian language nothing or very little to do with Greeks.

However music and instruments are very similar to Pontic Greeks

They have Daoul,Kemence"in Greek lyra" and Tulum"Bagpipe"as their instruments same with Pontian Greeks.

Marmara

07-09-2018, 04:03 PM

The people in Turkey who descend from Pontic Greeks and are now Turks are distinguished from Laz and call themselfes Rum
and speak Pontic Greek which they call Romeika.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Goq43EcAiq0

Laz is native Georgian tribe they speak Lazuri and it is a Georgian language nothing or very little to do with Greeks.

However music and instruments are very similar to Pontic Greeks

They have Daoul,Kemence"in Greek lyra" and Tulum"Bagpipe"as their instruments same with Pontian Greeks.

I'm very well aware of the difference between Pontics and Lazes.

They don't usually call themselves Rum and most don't speak Pontic Greek.

They usually just call themselves Trabzonian(Trabzonlu)

Tauromachos

07-09-2018, 04:12 PM

I'm very well aware of the difference between Pontics and Lazes.

They don't usually call themselves Rum and most don't speak Pontic Greek.

They usually just call themselves Trabzonian(Trabzonlu)

As i said all these people now became Turks or identify with Turkish nation.

But the people who realy come from former Pontian Greeks call themselfes Rum.

After alot of Greek Pontians left the region their houses and villages were settled also by alot of Turks from other
parts of Anatolia.

Native Laz are often very light and look Pontid or Pontid with Armenoid mix and not so much pure Armenoid.

The lightest Turks i have seen were people with Laz origin

KingOf

07-09-2018, 04:12 PM

Also, not all Pontic Greeks are armenoid phenotype.

NOTE: I think the -idis was put on after the population exchange but I'm not 100% sure on that, to be honest. Perhaps it started before as well.

the -idis existed before 1922 and majority of Pontians had it like today
-idis is not Pontian Greek exclusive... it exists among Greeks from Asia Minor,Thrace,Cyprus as well
-idis was taken by some refugee Greeks as 'Hellenization' of their original surname which ended with -oglou... a Turkish origin ending

Marmara

07-09-2018, 04:23 PM

As i said all these people now became Turks or identify with Turkish nation.

But the people who realy come from former Pontian Greeks call themselfes Rum.

After alot of Greek Pontians left the region their houses and villages were settled also by alot of Turks from other
parts of Anatolia.

Native Laz are often very light and look Pontid or Pontid with Armenoid mix and not so much pure Armenoid.

The lightest Turks i have seen were people with Laz origin

Laz people are light but i think they have the most Armenoid features. They are very brachycephalic and famous with big hooked noses.

Check out this guy, he's very recognizeable Laz.

https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTwIzOMdMzobHtZEoqp1lBpmzrfM2N0f JcmaOMdxqMYZazqBpAk

https://scontent-iad3-1.cdninstagram.com/vp/361205ede38f5b8d4f4e740a29b166e3/5B63FC81/t51.2885-15/e35/29090271_2057152997907821_4794941282126397440_n.jp g

http://cdn.bursahakimiyet.com.tr/haber/2016/03/17/131480-58606bd815342.jpg

Tauromachos

07-09-2018, 04:25 PM

Laz people are light but i think they have the most Armenoid features. They are very brachycephalic and famous with big hooked noses.

Check out this guy, he's very recognizeable Laz.

https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTwIzOMdMzobHtZEoqp1lBpmzrfM2N0f JcmaOMdxqMYZazqBpAk

https://scontent-iad3-1.cdninstagram.com/vp/361205ede38f5b8d4f4e740a29b166e3/5B63FC81/t51.2885-15/e35/29090271_2057152997907821_4794941282126397440_n.jp g

http://cdn.bursahakimiyet.com.tr/haber/2016/03/17/131480-58606bd815342.jpg

Yes the Nose is a typical trait of them

But these people don't look pure Armenoid when you compare them to textbook Armenoids.

Armenoids proper are darker

Marmara

07-09-2018, 04:29 PM

Yes the Nose is a typical trait of them

But these people don't look pure Armenoid when you compare them to textbook Armenoids.

Armenoids proper are darker

That's common misconception, textbook Armenoids aren't dark.

Considered to be the "true" Caucasians, Armenoids were relatively tall, usually with medium to dark brown or black hair, light to medium skin colour, large round eyes that were usually brown; a round, brachycephalic head shape with a straight backing (planocciput) (see Cephalic index), high cheekbones and non-prominent chins. Lips were full, and noses were often aquiline. Large minority of Armenoids have blond hair and blue, green, or hazel eyes.

Not all Laz people are light.

Livin

07-09-2018, 04:37 PM

Also, not all Pontic Greeks are armenoid phenotype.

NOTE: I think the -idis was put on after the population exchange but I'm not 100% sure on that, to be honest. Perhaps it started before as well.

Who told you that idis is helllenized surname?

And who told you that all Pontians have surnames ending to idis?

You have no idea about Pontians surnames.

The only true is that Pontians are not all armenoids.

Livin

07-09-2018, 04:41 PM

Do pontics have a different phenotype from mainland greeks?

Yes we look a lot of different.

Only with some Cretans I will say that we can look close.

Major phenotypes are Caucasid,Dinarid,armenoid,asiatic alpine,pontid

Tauromachos

07-09-2018, 04:48 PM

Traditional Pontian Greek music

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BeNMI3Zpaf4

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_6kKBYIJCFw

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hf-rM6l4yQo

Marmara

07-09-2018, 04:48 PM

Yes we look a lot of different.

Only with some Cretans I will say that we can look close.

Major phenotypes are Caucasid,Dinarid,armenoid,asiatic alpine,pontid

Would she pass for Pontic in Greece?

https://encrypted-tbn1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcT4BU612YcZPykO0FNybCG8XFU9HZNT3 EWX_pprM_hRBBtGObV4wt9ugVTw

https://encrypted-tbn1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTP1FyglyWuFFgtCKmIXUAuPwOIqkFnF YD_5qZD9dmNpyLBmpEdv5I_hoP-

https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/proxy/a-m_lor1QdxvD1CZLy98DVqQHhNBs7LG26UIOekANHGRH7X8JNGl 4hphdZ4dwIqwAGJ_GlTvNilTCw0atTDZeLP4fa0NVC7l4pmzP-D8nO-d6giD2ugCE6ICKzGOn4DWRjV2hentJ_epTrOGUqdCmfkQOoAiG jxi=w345-h426-nc

Livin

07-09-2018, 04:59 PM

Would she pass for Pontic in Greece?

https://encrypted-tbn1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcT4BU612YcZPykO0FNybCG8XFU9HZNT3 EWX_pprM_hRBBtGObV4wt9ugVTw

https://encrypted-tbn1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTP1FyglyWuFFgtCKmIXUAuPwOIqkFnF YD_5qZD9dmNpyLBmpEdv5I_hoP-

No!

Rgvgjhvv

07-09-2018, 05:05 PM

Who told you that idis is helllenized surname?

And who told you that all Pontians have surnames ending to idis?

You have no idea about Pontians surnames.

The only true is that Pontians are not all armenoids.

You need to relax, lol. A lot clearly do. Look at a list of modern-day Pontic Greeks.

Ex.

Soccer players:

Georgios Amanatidis (b. 1970)
Ioannis Amanatidis (b. 1981)
Antonis Antoniadis (b. 1945)
Christos Archontidis (coach also)
Stefanos Athanasiadis (b. 1988)
Elias Atmatsidis (b. 1969)
Giorgios Georgiadis (b. 1987)
Aristidis Kamaras (b. 1939) (mother)
Kiriakos Karataidis (b. 1965)
Yevhen Khacheridi (b. 1987) Ukrainian-Greek footballer for Dynamo Kyiv
Savvas Kofidis (b. 1961) (coach also)
Stan Lazaridis (b. 1972) former football player who represented his homeland Australia
Yuri Lodygin (b. 1990) Russian-Greek goalkeeper for Zenit Saint Petersburg
Takis Loukanidis (b. 1937)
Dimitris Mavrogenidis (b. 1976)
Kostas Nestoridis (b. 1930)
Demis Nikolaidis (b. 1973)
Antonios Nikopolidis (b. 1971)
Andreas Niniadis (b. 1971) (assistant coach also)
Dimitrios Papadopoulos (b. 1981)
Mimis Papaioannou (b. 1942)
Evstaphiy Pechlevanidis (b. 1960)
Ilias Poursanidis (b. 1972)
Ilias Rossidis (b. 1928)
Dimitris Salpingidis (b. 1981)
Giourkas Seitaridis (b. 1981)
Ieroklis Stoltidis (b. 1975)
Efstathios Tavlaridis (b. 1980)
Ioannis Topalidis (b. 1962) (coach also)
Vasilis Torosidis (b. 1985)
Panagiotis Tsalouchidis (b. 1963)
Zisis Vryzas (b. 1973) (mother)

I have no idea though, right? I must be a moron.

Rgvgjhvv

07-09-2018, 05:11 PM

-idis or -ides and -iadis or iades (-ίδης/-ιάδης): meaning 'son of' or 'descendant of'. The suffix -idis (often transliterated -ides in English and French) is the oldest in use. Zeus, for example, was also referred to as Cronides ("son of Cronus"). -idis was the most common suffix in Byzantium, Bithynia and Byzantine Thrace, being also used by Pontic Greeks and Caucasus Greeks in the Pontic Alps, northeast Anatolia, Georgia, the former Kars Oblast, and sometimes in Epirus, Corfu and some Aegean islands. Examples include: "Stavridis", "Koutoufides", "Angelidis", "Georgiadis".

Marmara

07-09-2018, 05:14 PM

You need to relax, lol. A lot clearly do. Look at a list of modern-day Pontic Greeks.

Ex.

Soccer players:

I have no idea though, right? I must be a moron.

I assume these people aren't full Pontic, i've checked some they looked exotic.

Rgvgjhvv

07-09-2018, 05:18 PM

I assume these people aren't full Pontic, i've checked some they looked exotic.

That I don't know and don't have time to research, but what I do know is that it's written in countless articles that there is a clear connection between Pontic peoples and the -idis suffix. Others can agree or not, I could care less now lol. Forget it

Marmara

07-09-2018, 05:39 PM

No!

İ guess lighter people around Pontic region has foreign admixture.

I wonder if there is much genetic difference between Muslim and Christian Pontics.

Livin

07-09-2018, 05:42 PM

You need to relax, lol. A lot clearly do. Look at a list of modern-day Pontic Greeks.

Ex.

Soccer players:

I have no idea though, right? I must be a moron.

I am relaxed dude!

You said about hellenized surnames among Pontians witch is absolutely wrong,and thats why i told you don't have idea.Pontians had those surnames before come to mainland.

Idis and adis yes are the most common but there are many others with totally different surnames like mines for example(you can see it below).

And the majority of these people that you posted are not even Pontians....

Livin

07-09-2018, 05:45 PM

İ guess lighter people around Pontic region has foreign admixture.

I wonder if there is much genetic difference between Muslim and Christian Pontics.

Pontians are 50%-50%

They will be pale skin or very dark skin like me.

I am very dark while my brother has pale skin(Irish type).

There are many pale skins among Pontians that you will never found among local greeks.

Marmara

07-09-2018, 05:47 PM

Pontians are 50%-50%

They will be pale skin or very dark skin like me.

I am very dark while my brother has pale skin(Irish type).

There are many pale skins among Pontians that you will never found among local greeks.

You said the girl doesn't pass Pontic Greek.

She's from Trabzon, though i don't know if she's Pontic, i just assume.

Livin

07-09-2018, 05:50 PM

You said the girl doesn't pass Pontic Greek.

She's from Trabzon, though i don't know if she's Pontic, i just assume.

She may be who knows!

She looks atypical IMO.

Marmara

07-09-2018, 05:53 PM

She may be who knows!

She looks atypical IMO.

Ok i think she's not. I might be overestimating the Pontic numbers there.

Livin

07-09-2018, 05:55 PM

Ok i think she's not. I might be overestimating the Pontic numbers there.

She looks very good for being Pontian xdddd :)

Pontian women are very ugly in general....

Tauromachos

07-09-2018, 05:57 PM

She looks very good for being Pontian xdddd :)

Pontian women are very ugly in general....

Nah they are not

Rgvgjhvv

07-09-2018, 05:59 PM

I am relaxed dude!

You said about hellenized surnames among Pontians witch is absolutely wrong,and thats why i told you don't have idea.Pontians had those surnames before come to mainland.

Idis and adis yes are the most common but there are many others with totally different surnames like mines for example(you can see it below).

And the majority of these people that you posted are not even Pontians....

I read it somewhere - I wouldn't have just made it up! I will try looking for the source later so you can choose to yell at the author or not.

Also again, I am assuming they have Pontic heritage and that's why they're on the list lol, which I also didn't just pull out of my arse lol

Tauromachos

07-09-2018, 05:59 PM

Here are Greek Pontians from Greece to get an Idea how they look like

They might not all be 100% of Pontian background but anyway

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DiOmhC2NBQI

Livin

07-09-2018, 06:01 PM

I read it somewhere - I wouldn't have just made it up! I will try looking for the source later so you can choose to yell at the author or not.

Also again, I am assuming they have Pontic heritage and that's why they're on the list lol, which I also didn't just pull out of my arse lol

Some of them are,others are mixed and others are not!

Idis is also a surname among locals.

Rgvgjhvv

07-09-2018, 06:11 PM

Some of them are,others are mixed and others are not!

Idis is also a surname among locals.

Indeed

adsız

07-09-2018, 06:13 PM

Yes, I am. I'm from Trabzon originally.

I did not know there was people in Trabzon calling themselves "pontic greek".
I heard "Horum" though...
Same people or not?

I2 came to Greece with slavs :rolleyes:

What does it have to do with what he said in the post you quoted?

Livin

07-09-2018, 09:09 PM

Its funny how Turks fighting each other and Greeks fighting also each other instead Greeks fight with Turks.

Funny nations....

Marmara

07-09-2018, 09:11 PM

What does it have to do with what he said in the post you quoted?

He pretends like he's the epitome of Greekness, while he himself has Slavic admix, he was saying Pontians mixed with Turks and Kurds.

DarknessWin

07-09-2018, 09:15 PM

I2 came to Greece with slavs :rolleyes:

How the hell then they found I2 in Mycenean ancient samples???

Kivan

07-09-2018, 09:16 PM

He pretends like he's the epitome of Greekness, while he himself has Slavic admix, he was saying Pontians mixed with Turks and Kurds.

That guy is a joke. His stupidity reminds me this thread.
https://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?219868-What-percentage-of-Greek-population-is-ethnic-Greek

:rofl_002:

Marmara

07-09-2018, 09:17 PM

How the hell then they found I2 in Mycenean ancient samples???

Did they? İt stil doesn't change anything, even if they did find İt was probably a different branch, related to Sardinian I2. Northern Greek I2 has Slavic origin, and no wonder your hometown borders a Slavic country.

Böri

07-09-2018, 09:19 PM

Allah is not Arabic, that's Hebrew (and ultimately Egyptian) and has old roots going to when Jews were in Egypt.
Muhammad's father was Abdullah (Abd Allah), he was not Muslim but had that name. How come?
Allah = Al İlah. The God.
İlah entered to Arabic language from Hebrew.
Hebrews (Jews) took it from the old Coptic Egyptian word 'Yah' (that means Moon) when they were living in Egypt.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6vP1eJ9eq64

İslamist imposing to the society that Tanrı can't be used, and Huda being avoided but being more acceptable shall be destroyed.
Anything about bigots is based on their ignorance.
Tengri/Tanrı is the right one to use.

DarknessWin

07-09-2018, 09:20 PM

That guy is a joke. His stupidity reminds me this thread.
https://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?219868-What-percentage-of-Greek-population-is-ethnic-Greek

:rofl_002:

I am joke because i f*ck you everyday ???

Pontid phenotype was not present in Ottomans and Anatolians

YOU ARE THE JOKE HERE

Marmara

07-09-2018, 09:21 PM

That guy is a joke. His stupidity reminds me this thread.
https://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?219868-What-percentage-of-Greek-population-is-ethnic-Greek

:rofl_002:

This thread cracks me up every time xD

DarknessWin

07-09-2018, 09:22 PM

I2 is ancient Balkan haplo , have nothing to do with the slavs because they were R1a.
Check Poland

I2 in south slavic population are from Thracians,Dacians,Greeks and other balkan tribes

Marmara

07-09-2018, 09:27 PM

I2 is ancient Balkan haplo , have nothing to do with the slavs because they were R1a.
Check Poland

I2 in south slavic population are from Thracians,Dacians,Greeks and other balkan tribes

A spesific branch of I2 is the most common in Balkans arrived with Slavic migration. (Check Ukraine)

Livin

07-09-2018, 09:28 PM

This thread cracks me up every time xD

Τhis thread shows exactly how J2 influenced Crete xd....

Marmara

07-09-2018, 09:30 PM

Τhis thread shows exactly how J2 influenced Crete xd....

J2b is ancient Greek y-dna. Anatolians are J2a

DarknessWin

07-09-2018, 09:32 PM

A spesific branch of I2 is the most common in Balkans arrived with Slavic migration. (Check Ukraine)

Slavs also had Natives among them.
Original Slavs were R1a

Also haplo mean nothing in phenotype

Marmara

07-09-2018, 09:32 PM

https://encrypted-tbn1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQGj2zEMTzvk9LkPpIpBqV68GVtiWzGV F46zpms3nwM-ts7s67kFUZ25L8w

DarknessWin

07-09-2018, 09:36 PM

Τhis thread shows exactly how J2 influenced Crete xd....

Bullsh*t , majority of ancient Greeks were J2 and you continue to place together haplogroup and phenotype.

Phenotype have nothing to do with Haplogroup

Ben Afleck is J2

https://timedotcom.files.wordpress.com/2018/03/ben-affleck-tweet-new-yorker-tattoos.jpg

https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRi22hBCOBhVfLcFTTqlZsUasBM-Rnfyt44C81z6-S7oA_5px3g

Marmara

07-09-2018, 09:37 PM

Slavs also had Natives among them.
Original Slavs were R1a

All original Indo-Europeans belonged to R1 haplo, but some other Y-DNA's were absorbed like I1 by Germanics and I2 by Slavs.

Also haplo mean nothing in phenotype

Yes, but it's a clue of ancestry. Your approximation to Slavs is very suspicious. North Greece already has native Slavs like Pomaks, Bulgarians and a Slavic group speaking a Bulgarian dialect you hate them to be called Macedonians. What are the odds you aren't mixed with them?

And let's not leave out Arvantines and Vlachs.

Livin

07-09-2018, 09:41 PM

Bullsh*t , majority of ancient Greeks were J2 and you continue to place together haplogroup and phenotype.

Phenotype have nothing to do with Haplogroup

Ben Afleck is J2

https://timedotcom.files.wordpress.com/2018/03/ben-affleck-tweet-new-yorker-tattoos.jpg

https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRi22hBCOBhVfLcFTTqlZsUasBM-Rnfyt44C81z6-S7oA_5px3g

Αrmenoids in Crete have to do mostly with J2 kura-araxes who migrated from Caucasus and Anatolia.

Some people believe that armenoids in Greece are foreign thing,but they are wrong.

Armenoids existed even in Ancient Greece.

Böri

07-09-2018, 09:43 PM

Αrmenoids in Crete have to do mostly with J2 kura-araxes who migrated from Caucasus and Anatolia.

Some people believe that armenoids in Greece are foreign thing,but they are wrong.

Armenoids existed even in Ancient Greece.

Arabs conquered Crete and created an emirate there which existed long centuries. Later, Byzantines reclaimed the island and repopulated with new people, including Armenians. That's how Armenoids made into Crete.
Btw many Armenians are ydna R1b, coming from their IE ancestors. Their phenotype turned darker and Armenoid through mixing with natives of Transcaucasus and Mesopotamia.

DarknessWin

07-09-2018, 09:46 PM

All original Indo-Europeans belonged to R1 haplo, but some other Y-DNA's were absorbed like I1 by Germanics and I2 by Slavs.

And let's not leave out Arvantines and Vlachs.

Bullsh*t again , Indoeuropeans belong to all R1a,R1b,EV13,J2,I2

Also the elite of Indoeuropeans were EV13

You people here are clueless and then call me funny,
You know sh*t about phenotypes and haplogroups

Again I2 were also part of ancient Greek but lets say that someone in Peloponnese have what you call slavic branch.
Again this dont make him slavic , it just tell us that an ancient forefather of him was Slav

Haplogroup its nothing, cant give the phenotype and cant give the dna either

If a swedish male from I1 haplo goes to africa and have kids with a nigg*r woman his kids
would be half swedish and half nigg*rs in their dna but they would have I1 haplo.
The same kids if have more kids with more nigg*r women and after many generations stay
and breed with nigg*rs it will be perfect 99% nigg*rs in the future with I1 haplo

I1 Haplo just point their first forefather but they are not Vikings , they are nigg*rs.
So dont play with haplo and phenotypes because its nothing

Livin

07-09-2018, 09:48 PM

Arabs conquered Crete and created an emirate there which existed long centuries. Later, Byzantines reclaimed the island and repopulated with new people, including Armenians. That's how Armenoids made into Cyprus.
Btw many Armenians are ydna R1b, coming from their IE ancestors. Their phenotype turned darker and Armenoid through mixing with natives of Transcaucasus and Mesopotamia.

This is bullsh*t!

First of all these Armenoid Cretans dosnt look Armenians.

J2 Minoans who migrated from Caucasus and Anatolia brought the armenoid phenotype in Crete and Islands.

There are also parts of mainland Greece (without anatolian background) with some armenoid/anatolid influences.

Does he look Armenian to you?
https://www.google.gr/search?q=mitsotakis&hl=el&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwipye6s_5LcAhVGP5oKHQzED8QQ_AUICigB&biw=1920&bih=974#imgrc=KpNb75a-lqVwZM:

Our next president has armenoid influences also and he dosnt look Armenian.

https://www.google.gr/search?q=mitsotakis&hl=el&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwipye6s_5LcAhVGP5oKHQzED8QQ_AUICigB&biw=1920&bih=974#imgrc=SSiIQGraJf2PTM:

DarknessWin

07-09-2018, 09:49 PM

Αrmenoids in Crete have to do mostly with J2 kura-araxes who migrated from Caucasus and Anatolia.

Some people believe that armenoids in Greece are foreign thing,but they are wrong.

Armenoids existed even in Ancient Greece.

Armenians are mostly R1b

J2 people in Crete must be native Med

DarknessWin

07-09-2018, 09:50 PM

This is bullsh*t!

First of all these Armenoid Cretans dosnt look Armenians.

J2 Minoans who migrated from Caucasus and Anatolia brought the armenoid phenotype in Crete and Islands.

There are also parts of mainland Greece (without anatolian background) with some armenoid/anatolid influences.

Does he look Armenian to you?
https://www.google.gr/search?q=mitsotakis&hl=el&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwipye6s_5LcAhVGP5oKHQzED8QQ_AUICigB&biw=1920&bih=974#imgrc=KpNb75a-lqVwZM:

Our next president has armenoid influences also and he dosnt look Armenian.

https://www.google.gr/search?q=mitsotakis&hl=el&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwipye6s_5LcAhVGP5oKHQzED8QQ_AUICigB&biw=1920&bih=974#imgrc=SSiIQGraJf2PTM:

Cretans are more doli than Greeks , armenoids dont exist there

Livin

07-09-2018, 09:51 PM

Cretans are more doli than Greeks , armenoids dont exist there

Doli is very rare thing among Greek population and nope Cretans have many armenoids in a grade like Greek anatolians.

Have you ever been in Crete?

Böri

07-09-2018, 09:51 PM

This is bullsh*t!

First of all these Armenoid Cretans dosnt look Armenians.

J2 Minoans who migrated from Caucasus and Anatolia brought the armenoid phenotype in Crete and Islands.

There are also parts of mainland Greece (without anatolian background) with some armenoid/anatolid influences.

Does he look Armenian to you?
https://www.google.gr/search?q=mitsotakis&hl=el&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwipye6s_5LcAhVGP5oKHQzED8QQ_AUICigB&biw=1920&bih=974#imgrc=KpNb75a-lqVwZM:

Our next president has armenoid influences also and he dosnt look Armenian.

https://www.google.gr/search?q=mitsotakis&hl=el&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwipye6s_5LcAhVGP5oKHQzED8QQ_AUICigB&biw=1920&bih=974#imgrc=SSiIQGraJf2PTM:

Dinarids are brothers of Armenoids in terms of phenotype but they are lighter and with thinner features.
When Dinarid mixes with darker East Med, the result might seem as Armenoid to you but that's mistake.

Tauromachos

07-09-2018, 09:52 PM

Armenians are mostly R1b

J2 people in Crete must be native Med

I agree with you J2a must not be Armenoid

Minoans didn't look Armenoid but more Med

But with the other points he made about Armenoid types in Greece i agree

Not all Armenoid types in Greece came to Greece with Anatolian Greeks

Livin

07-09-2018, 09:52 PM

Armenians are mostly R1b

J2 people in Crete must be native Med

J2 in Crete come with Kura-Araxes(Minoans) from Caucasus/Anatolia and they are who brought Armenoid.

The meds there have to do with G2a and Ev1 like the Greek mainland.

Islands also have many armenoids without have anatolian background.

Marmara

07-09-2018, 09:52 PM

Bullsh*t again , Indoeuropeans belong to all R1a,R1b,EV13,J2,I2

Also the elite of Indoeuropeans were EV13

You people here are clueless and then call me funny,
You know sh*t about phenotypes and haplogroups

Haplogroup its nothing, cant give the phenotype and cant give the dna either

I1 Haplo just point their first forefather but they are not Vikings , they are nigg*rs.
So dont play with haplo and phenotypes because its nothing

You are masterfully avoiding my points like you avoid with anything related to your italian cam wanker past.

I'm saying you can indeed have Slavic admixture, but you pretend to be epitome of Greekness.

Moreover, you probably wouldn't claim a Slavic looking Greek from Northern Greece to mixed with Slavs, but you easily excommunicate any Greek from Greekness who doesn't look pleasant enough for you, like what Gultekin says.

https://i.hizliresim.com/29Da7v.png

Tauromachos

07-09-2018, 09:53 PM

J2 in Crete come with Kura-Araxes(Minoans) from Caucasus/Anatolia and they are who brought Armenoid.

The meds there have to do with G2a and Ev1 like the Greek mainland.

Islands also have many armenoids without have anatolian background.

They don't have so many Armenoids

Greeks Islands has many Med looking people even West Med like

Kivan

07-09-2018, 09:58 PM

Not really.

Livin

07-09-2018, 09:58 PM

There is not east med phenotype.

I am talking about pure armenoids leave outside dinarids!

Marmara

07-09-2018, 09:59 PM

This thread was about Pontic Greeks now we discuss phenotypes. Anyway i quit.

Livin

07-09-2018, 09:59 PM

They don't have so many Armenoids

Greeks Islands has many Med looking people even West Med like

I am talking specifically about Aegean islands.Yes they are mostly meds but there are also many armenoid individuals.

Tauromachos

07-09-2018, 10:03 PM

I am talking specifically about Aegean islands.Yes they are mostly meds but there are also many armenoid individuals.

Are you sure there are many?

This may applie to some Islands maybe but i don't think all

Anyway Armenoid types always existed in Greece as you said yourself even in some parts of the Mainlands.

In fact Armenoid types in small quantities have been recorded by Anthropologists like Coon and others in many different parts of
Europe.

Livin

07-09-2018, 10:04 PM

Are you sure there are many?

This may applie to some Islands maybe but i don't think all

Anyway Armenoid types always existed in Greece as you said yourself even in some parts of the Mainlands.

In fact Armenoid types in small quantities have been recorded by Anthropologists like Coon and others in many different parts of
Europe.

J2 brought armenoid in the most parts of meditteranean basin.

Sicily for example has a great amount of armenoids like Crete,Cyprus etc.

DarknessWin

07-09-2018, 10:09 PM

Doli is very rare thing among Greek population and nope Cretans have many armenoids in a grade like Greek anatolians.

Have you ever been in Crete?

Greece have doli populkation like spain and sweden
but they have brachy in the west greece from Dinarids and
this give us average Mesocephalic in the stats.

Crete on the other hand is mesocephalic
while Armenoids from Turkey and Dinarids ,Alpines from europe are brachy

http://antropologia-fizyczna.pl/images/typologia/mapy/antropometria/Europa/kiszely-ci.jpg

Taiguaitiaoghyrmmumin

07-09-2018, 10:11 PM

Bullsh*t again , Indoeuropeans belong to all R1a,R1b,EV13,J2,I2

Also the elite of Indoeuropeans were EV13

You people here are clueless and then call me funny,
You know sh*t about phenotypes and haplogroups

Haplogroup its nothing, cant give the phenotype and cant give the dna either

I1 Haplo just point their first forefather but they are not Vikings , they are nigg*rs.
So dont play with haplo and phenotypes because its nothingEv 13 (e1b1b) were africans who branched off e1b1. Its why e1b1a is in ssa exclusively.

Bust of memnon, foster son of herodes atticus - e1b1bhttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180709/fe9db6fcee70e655d6c5caa57c60ca12.jpg

DarknessWin

07-09-2018, 10:15 PM

You are masterfully avoiding my points like you avoid with anything related to your italian cam wanker past.

I'm saying you can indeed have Slavic admixture, but you pretend to be epitome of Greekness.

https://i.hizliresim.com/29Da7v.png

What italian crap you say all the time and what cam you f*cking idiot, post it here to see because you dont speak for me .
I was the destroyer of this clown Gultekin , he posted non greeks and gypsies as greeks and this map dont show Greeks at all
but gypsies , anatolians and an australian

My DNA is 100% Greek , haplo have no meaning and as i said before I2 were part of Muceneans and ancient ethnicities

Taiguaitiaoghyrmmumin

07-09-2018, 10:20 PM

My DNA is 100% Greek , haplo have no meaning and as i said before I2 were part of Muceneans and ancient ethnicitiesYour dna is i2. How is it truely ancient greek?
If it were j2 or ev13 maybe or even j1. But I? I is hunter gatherer pre hellenic. Not greek. Barbarian haplogroup

FinalFlash

07-09-2018, 10:24 PM

I just wanted to point out that Armenoid=/=Armenian.

DarknessWin

07-09-2018, 10:24 PM

EV13 is 100% European

Memnon was not EV13

This albanian man is EV13

http://media.gettyimages.com/photos/albanias-forward-bekim-balaj-holds-a-press-conference-at-the-teams-picture-id540920674

Ooooops, not a nigg*r.
But R1b from Cameroon and Nigeria are the epitome of nigg*rs.
WTF ??

DarknessWin

07-09-2018, 10:25 PM

I just wanted to point out that Armenoid=/=Armenian.

Most Armenians are Armenoids through

DarknessWin

07-09-2018, 10:28 PM

Your dna is i2. How is it truely ancient greek?
If it were j2 or ev13 maybe or even j1. But I? I is hunter gatherer pre hellenic. Not greek. Barbarian haplogroup

Another clueless f*ck here

Myceneans had I2 among them too

Ancient Greece had all EV13,R1,I2,J2

It have not J1

FinalFlash

07-09-2018, 10:28 PM

Most Armenians are Armenoids through

That's an exaggeration though. A misnomer. I've posted photos of Armenian footballers from senior to junior levels on our subforum that says the opposite actually. Most Armenians aren't exactly uber Armenoid even when they do show Armenoid tendencies.

Livin

07-09-2018, 10:28 PM

Your dna is i2. How is it truely ancient greek?
If it were j2 or ev13 maybe or even j1. But I? I is hunter gatherer pre hellenic. Not greek. Barbarian haplogroup

EV13,G2a,J2=pre-Hellenic.

Ev13=Pelasgians
g2a=Neolithic farmers
J2=Minoans

R1b=Dorians

R1a and I2 are mostly Thracian and Slavic.

Taiguaitiaoghyrmmumin

07-09-2018, 10:29 PM

EV13 is 100% European

Memnon was not EV13

This albanian man is EV13

http://media.gettyimages.com/photos/albanias-forward-bekim-balaj-holds-a-press-conference-at-the-teams-picture-id540920674

Ooooops, not a nigg*r.
But R1b from Cameroon and Nigeria are the epitome of nigg*rs.
WTF ??He is.
R1b in africa is different because r1b in africa is clearly both in west eurasia and africa. But e1b1a is only in ssa. And e1b1b is in both ssa and west eurasia.

Taiguaitiaoghyrmmumin

07-09-2018, 10:31 PM

Another clueless f*ck here

Myceneans had I2 among them too

Ancient Greece had all EV13,R1,I2,J2

It have not J1

Mycnaens with I are not real greeks than. It was common for greeks to assimilate neighboring tribes.

DarknessWin

07-09-2018, 10:31 PM

Ev 13 (e1b1b) were africans who branched off e1b1. Its why e1b1a is in ssa exclusively.

Bust of memnon, foster son of herodes atticus - e1b1bhttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180709/fe9db6fcee70e655d6c5caa57c60ca12.jpg

Also E1b1b its 0% in SSA ,
in SSA we have A and B haplo

E1b1b exist in east africa where people there are not SSA.
Somalians even included in Caucasian race

EV13 on the other hand not even exist in Somalia or Africa as a whole.
Its indoeuropean haplo exist only in Europe

Böri

07-09-2018, 10:31 PM

Ev13 is the branch of north African and Horner E, which travelled north during early neolithic.
Indo-Europeans were R1.

Ev13 in autosomal isn't detected through the SSA component, but you can detect it via the Red Sea component.

Taiguaitiaoghyrmmumin

07-09-2018, 10:32 PM

E1b1b does exist in ssa africa. I dont know where you get that. Its just lower than e1b1a.

Taiguaitiaoghyrmmumin

07-09-2018, 10:33 PM

Also E1b1b its 0% in SSA ,
in SSA we have A and B haplo

E1b1b exist in east africa where people there are not SSA.
Somalians even included in Caucasian race

EV13 on the other hand not even exist in Somalia or Africa as a whole.
Its indoeuropean haplo exist only in EuropeIt exists in both west africa and east africa. But its much higher in east africa. In west africa its e1b1a more.

And they are ssa in east africa. They are basically ancient mullatos in east africa. The original east africans were nilotids nilosaharan and other ssa types that have been absorbed already.

Livin

07-09-2018, 10:34 PM

Mycnaens with I are not real greeks than. It was common for greeks to assimilate neighboring tribes.

Mycenaeans were mostly Ev13 and G2a Neolithic,But they had for sure 15% some indoeuroean elite who force the folks to talk the Greek language.

DarknessWin

07-09-2018, 10:35 PM

Mycnaens with I are not real greeks than. It was common for greeks to assimilate neighboring tribes.

Its part of ancient greek and modern greek nation you idiot.
How its not Greek if it existed in ancient Greece???

DNA and phenotype its different than the f*cking haplogroup.
You can find people from I2 with 100% greek genes and you can find people
from J2 with 0% greek genes.

For example many anatolians and middle east are J2.

Many different haplogroups are part of every country,
no country have only 1 haplo

Taiguaitiaoghyrmmumin

07-09-2018, 10:38 PM

Its part of ancient greek and modern greek nation you idiot.
How its not Greek if it existed in ancient Greece???

DNA and phenotype its different than the f*cking haplogroup.
You can find people from I2 with 100% greek genes and you can find people
from J2 with 0% greek genes.

For example many anatolians and middle east are J2.

Many different haplogroups are part of every country,
no country have only 1 haplo

It doesnt matter if they have other greek autosomal dna. The origin of their y paternal haplogroup is not hellenic.

DarknessWin

07-09-2018, 10:39 PM

Mycenaeans were mostly Ev13 and G2a Neolithic,But they had for sure 15% some indoeuroean elite who force the folks to talk the Greek language.

The elite of Indoeuopeans were EV13 .
Eupedia say it not me

https://i.imgur.com/AMv2nqk.png

Indoeuropeans came here were EV13 too.
So they speaked indoeuropean language from the time of Minoans

Noone forced them to speak because J2 and EV13 were also indoeuropeans

DarkSecret

07-09-2018, 10:40 PM

I don't have problem with that.

That also implies that Greeks are supposed to be Orthodoxes in Turkey.

So, Muslim Laz exist in Turkey somewhat officially but 'Muslim Pontic Greeks' don't seem to exist.

Because Ottomans dubbed Muslim Pontians "Laz". They simply considered muslims in the region Laz and the Christians Pontic Greeks. That is why today still the peoples in black sea region are considered Laz as a whole wrongly.

Taiguaitiaoghyrmmumin

07-09-2018, 10:42 PM

The elite of Indoeuopeans were EV13 .
Eupedia say it not me

https://i.imgur.com/AMv2nqk.png

Indoeuropeans came here were EV13 too.
So they speaked indoeuropean language from the time of Minoans

Noone forced them to speak because J2 and EV13 were also indoeuropeans

Eupedia is a joke. Minoans could be ev13. And? I is not hellenic. I dont even think minoans were greeks. I just think they were closely related.

DarknessWin

07-09-2018, 10:42 PM

It doesnt matter if they have other greek autosomal dna. The origin of their y paternal haplogroup is not hellenic.

How the hell its not Hellenic if ancient Greeks had also people from I2 haplo???

DarknessWin

07-09-2018, 10:43 PM

Eupedia is a joke. Minoans could be ev13. And? I is not hellenic. I dont even think minoans were greeks. I just think they were closely related.

No you are Joke .
f*ck of now i dont have time to speak with clueless idiots

Norka

07-09-2018, 10:43 PM

E-V13 is exclusively a Balkanigg* haplogroup found mostly in the Balkans, Europe and in minuscule amounts in North Africa. Non in SSA and even Somalia. Can't say I agree that it was found amoung elite of indo-europeans but rather it was picked up with indo-european invasion and spread through out europe from the Balkans.

Taiguaitiaoghyrmmumin

07-09-2018, 10:43 PM

How the hell its not Hellenic if ancient Greeks had also people from I2 haplo???Ancient greeks migrated from west asia. I has always been in europe.

DarknessWin

07-09-2018, 10:45 PM

Ev13 is the branch of north African and Horner E, which travelled north during early neolithic.
Indo-Europeans were R1.

Ev13 in autosomal isn't detected through the SSA component, but you can detect it via the Red Sea component.

SSA its A and B . E1b1b maybe even came from Europe and Balkans

Why somalians are part of Caucasian race and not African ??

DarkSecret

07-09-2018, 10:46 PM

It might be a specific case for my family. Because there is also a Laz word for God: Xormot'i. I believe some of the Laz lineage adopted Tangri from Turkic tribes in antiquity and preserved it till today.

DarknessWin

07-09-2018, 10:48 PM

Ancient greeks migrated from west asia. I has always been in europe.

Ancient Greeks migrated from both west asia and north Balkans.

You dont even know the Greek history .

Search for Dorian Invasion , one Greek tribe came from Balkans and also had I2 haplo

The main tribes was 3 , Ionians,Aeolians,Dorians

Kelmendasi

07-09-2018, 10:49 PM

Ev13 is the branch of north African and Horner E, which travelled north during early neolithic.
Indo-Europeans were R1.

Ev13 in autosomal isn't detected through the SSA component, but you can detect it via the Red Sea component.
E-V13 isn't north African. E-V13 itself originates in the Balkans as shown by highest diversity found in the area between Albania and Montenegro and the fact that E1b-L618 was found in Neolithic Dalmatia and L618 is the father clade of V13.

DarknessWin

07-09-2018, 10:51 PM

EV13 is found among Leaders so i believe it was also Elite in indoeuropeans.

If you search about EV13 you will found the greatest warriors , kings and scientists

Even Hitler,Mussolini were both EV13
Napoleon
Alexander the Great
Garibaldi
Einstein
Wright brothers
......

Kelmendasi

07-09-2018, 10:52 PM

E1b1b does exist in ssa africa. I dont know where you get that. Its just lower than e1b1a.
E-V13 doesn't exist in SSA Africa

Taiguaitiaoghyrmmumin

07-09-2018, 10:52 PM

Ancient Greeks migrated from both west asia and north Balkans.

You dont even know the Greek history .

Search for Dorian Invasion , one Greek tribe came from Balkans and also had I2 haplo

The main tribes was 3 , Ionians,Aeolians,Dorians

They migrated from west asia into the balkans. They were never any I greeks in the beggining.

Kelmendasi

07-09-2018, 10:54 PM

I2 is ancient Balkan haplo , have nothing to do with the slavs because they were R1a.
Check Poland

I2 in south slavic population are from Thracians,Dacians,Greeks and other balkan tribes
I2 in South Slavs is a Slavic haplogroup, they belong to downstreams of I2a-CTS10228 which has a spread from eastern Europe during the early medieval. Native I2 clades in the Balkans are certain I2a2 clades and probably I2a1a clades

DarknessWin

07-09-2018, 10:55 PM

EV13,G2a,J2=pre-Hellenic.

Ev13=Pelasgians
g2a=Neolithic farmers
J2=Minoans

R1b=Dorians

R1a and I2 are mostly Thracian and Slavic.

I2 is Dorian too

Kelmendasi

07-09-2018, 10:55 PM

How the hell then they found I2 in Mycenean ancient samples???
The Mycenaean samples were only J2a, no I2 was found

DarknessWin

07-09-2018, 10:57 PM

I2 in South Slavs is a Slavic haplogroup, they belong to downstreams of I2a-CTS10228 which has a spread from eastern Europe during the early medieval. Native I2 clades in the Balkans are certain I2a2 clades and probably I2a1a clades

Its not Slavic in native

Dacians and Thracians were Slavs???

Taiguaitiaoghyrmmumin

07-09-2018, 10:58 PM

E1b1b was in east africa 22,400 years ago before natufian invaders. It was ssa east african. Than they werent mullatoid mixed looking caucasoid mixes.
Horn of africa, ethiopia.

Kelmendasi

07-09-2018, 10:59 PM

Its not Slavic in native

Dacians and Thracians were Slavs???
The I2a1b clades in the Balkans today is Slavic, there is no other way around it. We have no Dacian samples so idk where you are getting the claim that they are I2 from and we only have 2 Thracian samples and was was E-Z1919(Probably V13) and the other was R1a-Z93 which is linked to Indo-Iranians.

Taiguaitiaoghyrmmumin

07-09-2018, 11:14 PM

E1b1b in ssa :

Kenyan bantus 13.7 %
Tanzanian bantus 21.8 %
Bissagos islands west africa) -14.3%
Democratic republic of congo east -13.9%
Datog people - 54 %
Dinka people-15 %
Hadza people - 15%
Kikuyu and kamba (bantus) - 19%
Mandinka (mande) - 8 %
Nubians -23%
Sandawe -34%
Senegalese 6 %
South african whites- only 9.6 %
Xhosa (south africans)- 28%
Zulu ( 21%

Kelmendasi

07-09-2018, 11:16 PM

E1b1b in ssa :

DarknessWin

07-09-2018, 11:20 PM

E1b1b in ssa :

Can you tell me the haplo from Cameroon and Nigeria ???

Taiguaitiaoghyrmmumin

07-09-2018, 11:24 PM

Can you tell me the haplo from Cameroon and Nigeria ???Not i2 non greeks, thats for sure.

Marmara

07-09-2018, 11:25 PM

Relevant Thread:

https://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?228692-Are-Pontians-racially-superior-to-the-Greeks

kleenex

07-10-2018, 01:07 AM

Αrmenoids in Crete have to do mostly with J2 kura-araxes who migrated from Caucasus and Anatolia.

Some people believe that armenoids in Greece are foreign thing,but they are wrong.

Armenoids existed even in Ancient Greece.

Possibly on the Greek Islands or Crete. I"ve never seen anything of the sort on the mainland (examples on this forum or from my travels or experience). Even the so called "dark" Maniots are much more Berid looking.

Rgvgjhvv

07-10-2018, 03:48 AM

Well, this escalated

adsız

07-10-2018, 07:10 AM

It was a good post. Thanks.

Tauromachos

07-10-2018, 07:42 AM

There are Armenoids in Greece also some parts of Continental Greece.

Armenoids have been recorded even in the Balkan region for example Bulgaria and other regions
Slavic countries included.

Read Coon or another source

Someone who claims Armenoids don't exist at all in Europe is delusional.

But the issue is also shallow because the distinction between Armenoids and Dinarics is not always clear

catgeorge

07-10-2018, 07:51 AM

You need to relax, lol. A lot clearly do. Look at a list of modern-day Pontic Greeks.

Ex.

Soccer players:

I have no idea though, right? I must be a moron.

-idis suffix is found all through out the black sea region - Greeks from modern Romania, modern Bulgaria..etc.

Tauromachos

07-10-2018, 07:52 AM

-idis suffix is found all through out the black sea region - Greeks from modern Romania, modern Bulgaria..etc.

True

Its also fairly common among Greeks from Thrace and Constantinople

catgeorge

07-10-2018, 07:53 AM

True

Its also fairly common among Greeks from Thrace and Constantinople

Yes, thats what I was trying to get at,

Rgvgjhvv

07-12-2018, 03:03 AM

Does anyone know if there were Pontic Greek communities in Western Anatolia as well? Or if there was any significant migration to Constantinople/Izmir before the population exchange?

KingOf

07-12-2018, 03:16 AM

Does anyone know if there were Pontic Greek communities in Western Anatolia as well? Or if there was any significant migration to Constantinople/Izmir before the population exchange?

on an individual level there should be... people also travelled around back then for work or whatever
organized communities i don't think so... haven't heard anything about that at least

Rgvgjhvv

07-12-2018, 03:34 AM

on an individual level there should be... people also travelled around back then for work or whatever
organized communities i don't think so... haven't heard anything about that at least

A Turkish guy told me he was taught Pontic Greeks also settled in Western Anatolia in places like Sakarya, Bolu, Izmit (Nikomedia), Safranbolu (Saframpolis), and even Aydin.

Petros Houhoulis

07-12-2018, 02:31 PM

...But their alphabet was Greek. Why would a Turk adopt the Greek alphabet but keep speaking Turkish???

Marmara

07-12-2018, 02:34 PM

...But their alphabet was Greek. Why would a Turk adopt the Greek alphabet but keep speaking Turkish???

Maybe because they were formerly illiterate and were taught to read and write by Orthodox Bishops.

KingOf

07-12-2018, 02:45 PM

A Turkish guy told me he was taught Pontic Greeks also settled in Western Anatolia in places like Sakarya, Bolu, Izmit (Nikomedia), Safranbolu (Saframpolis), and even Aydin.

what do you mean taught?
this was a Pontian Greek from Constantinople... major general in 1821 Revolution

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alexander_Ypsilantis

Petros Houhoulis

07-12-2018, 02:59 PM

Maybe because they were formerly illiterate and were taught to read and write by Orthodox Bishops.

Young man, the people of Asia Minor were literate long before the Turks were even recorded in history. Besides, if they needed to use an Alphabet for Turkish they could use Turkish or even Arabic as the Turks did...

...Furthermore, the Turks were Muslims. What need did they have of Orthodox bishops???

Use your f*cking brain for once...

Marmara

07-12-2018, 03:02 PM

...Furthermore, the Turks were Muslims. What need did they have of Orthodox bishops???

Use your f*cking brain for once...

Retard, they were converted to Christianity.

Rgvgjhvv

07-12-2018, 03:13 PM

what do you mean taught?
this was a Pontian Greek from Constantinople... major general in 1821 Revolution

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alexander_Ypsilantis

Okay so it's common knowledge? Bro if I'm asking I'm clearly unaware of that fact lol

KingOf

07-12-2018, 03:29 PM

Okay so it's common knowledge? Bro if I'm asking I'm clearly unaware of that fact lol

i know you are unaware bro and that's why you ask
what i didn't get was what the Turkish guy told you... he was taught by who that this cities had major Pontic Greek settlement before 1922?
i think Greeks from Saframpolis are considered Pontic Greeks... maybe i'm wrong
also now that i searched Nikomideia had significant Pontic Greek population

Tauromachos

07-12-2018, 03:38 PM

All Greeks close to the coastal line of the Black Sea region were considered Pontic Greeks and had similar customs
dressing e.c.t

There is not only East Pontus and Tapezounta but else West Pontus which in fact borders East Thrace.
Bafra e.c.t
Paphlagonia is also roughly counted as Pontus region.

Also there are Pontian Greeks since Ancient times on the Northern Black Sea region Southern Russia and Ukraine.

Here is a map that shows the ancient Greek Pontic kingdom in dark purple
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/b/bc/PonticKingdom.png

Petros Houhoulis

07-12-2018, 04:02 PM

Retard, they were converted to Christianity.

Only a small number of them converted to Christianity. The vast majority remained Muslim, until today.

Meanwhile, a number of these Karamanlides never stopped speaking Greek:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cappadocians#Early_Christianian_and_Byzantine_peri ods

In the meantime many former Cappadocians had shifted to a Turkish dialect (written in Greek alphabet (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greek_alphabet), Karamanlıca (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Karamanli_Turkish)), and where the Greek language (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greek_language) was maintained (Sille, villages near Kayseri, Pharasa town and other nearby villages), it became heavily influenced by the surrounding Turkish. This dialect of Greek is known as Cappadocian Greek (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cappadocian_Greek). Following the 1923 population exchange between Greece and Turkey (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Population_exchange_between_Greece_and_Turkey), the language is now only spoken by a handful of the former population's descendants in modern Greece (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greece).

By the fifth century AD, the last of the Indo-European native languages of Asia Minor (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anatolian_languages) ceased to be spoken, replaced (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hellenization) by Koine Greek (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Koine_Greek).[6] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cappadocian_Greek#cite_note-Oxford_University_Press-6) At the same time, the communities of central Asia Minor (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anatolia) were becoming actively involved in the affairs of the Greek-speaking Eastern Roman Empire (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eastern_Roman_Empire), and some (now Greek-speaking) Cappadocians, such as Maurice Tiberius (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maurice_Tiberius) (r. 582-602) and Heraclius (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heraclius) (r. 610 to 641), would even rise to become Emperors (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Byzantine_Emperor).[7] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cappadocian_Greek#cite_note-Stark,_Freya_2012_390-7)[8] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cappadocian_Greek#cite_note-Corradini,_Richard_2005_57-8)
Cappadocian Greek first began to diverge from the Medieval Greek (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Medieval_Greek) common language of the Eastern Roman (Byzantine) Empire (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eastern_Roman_(Byzantine)_Empire) six centuries later,[5] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cappadocian_Greek#cite_note-Dawkins-5) following the Byzantine's defeat at the Battle of Manzikert (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Manzikert) in 1071. This defeat allowed Turkish (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turkish_language) speakers to enter Asia Minor for the first time, severing Cappadocia from the rest of the Byzantine world.[citation needed (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Citation_needed)] Over the next centuries Cappadocian Greek would be heavily influenced by Turkish, but unlike Standard Modern Greek (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Standard_Modern_Greek), it would not be influenced by Venetian (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Venetian_language) and French from the Frankokratia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frankokratia) period, which followed the Fourth Crusade (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fourth_Crusade)'s sack of Constantinople (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Constantinople) in 1204.
The earliest records of the language are in the macaronic (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Macaronic_language) Persian (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Persian_language) poems of Jalal ad-Din Muhammad Rumi (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rumi) (1207-1273), who lived in Iconium (Konya (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Konya)), and some ghazals (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ghazal) by his son Sultan Walad (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sultan_Walad).[9] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cappadocian_Greek#cite_note-9)[10] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cappadocian_Greek#cite_note-10) Interpretation of the texts is difficult as they are written in Arabic script (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arabic_script), and in Rumi's case without vowel points; Dedes' is the most recent edition and rather more successful than others.[11] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cappadocian_Greek#cite_note-11)[12] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cappadocian_Greek#cite_note-12)[13] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cappadocian_Greek#cite_note-13)
Many Cappadocians shifted to Turkish altogether (written with the Greek alphabet, Karamanlidika (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Karamanlides)). Where Greek was maintained (Sille (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sille_(village)) near Konya, numerous villages near Kayseri, including Misthi (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Misthi), Malakopea (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malakopea), and Anakou (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kaymakli) and Pharasa town), it became heavily influenced by the surrounding Turkish. However, there are next to no written documents in Medieval or early Modern Cappadocian, as the language was, and still essentially is, a spoken language only. Those educated to read and write, such as priests, would do so in the more classicising literary Greek. The earliest outside studies of spoken Cappadocian date from the 19th century, but are generally not very accurate.

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/9/96/Anatolian_Greek_dialects.png

Rgvgjhvv

07-12-2018, 06:03 PM

All Greeks close to the coastal line of the Black Sea region were considered Pontic Greeks and had similar customs
dressing e.c.t

There is not only East Pontus and Tapezounta but else West Pontus which in fact borders East Thrace.
Bafra e.c.t
Paphlagonia is also roughly counted as Pontus region.

Also there are Pontian Greeks since Ancient times on the Northern Black Sea region Southern Russia and Ukraine.

Here is a map that shows the ancient Greek Pontic kingdom in dark purple
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/b/bc/PonticKingdom.png

Thank you!! Answers questions I've had about my origins. Cheers

Tauromachos

07-12-2018, 06:04 PM

Thank you!! Answers questions I've had about my origins. Cheers

Ok then

Petros Houhoulis

07-12-2018, 07:18 PM

All original Indo-Europeans belonged to R1 haplo, but some other Y-DNA's were absorbed like I1 by Germanics and I2 by Slavs.

And let's not leave out Arvantines and Vlachs.

All of them are either Slavicised or Arvanised or Romanised. None of these languages were native in the south Balkans 2.000 years ago.

Petros Houhoulis

07-12-2018, 07:25 PM

You are masterfully avoiding my points like you avoid with anything related to your italian cam wanker past.

I'm saying you can indeed have Slavic admixture, but you pretend to be epitome of Greekness.

https://i.hizliresim.com/29Da7v.png

Gultekin is such an idiot, he placed a Hellenized Egyptian from Fayum in the Cyclades!!!

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/0/09/Fayum-01.jpg/155px-Fayum-01.jpg

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fayum_mummy_portraits

Mummy portraits or Fayum mummy portraits (also Faiyum mummy portraits) is the modern term given to a type of naturalistic painted portrait (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Portrait) on wooden boards attached to Egyptian mummies (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mummy) from Roman Egypt (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roman_Egypt). They belong to the tradition of panel painting (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Panel_painting), one of the most highly regarded forms of art in the Classical world (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Classical_antiquity). In fact, the Fayum portraits are the only large body of art from that tradition to have survived.
Mummy portraits have been found across Egypt (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Egypt), but are most common in the Faiyum Basin (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Faiyum_Oasis), particularly from Hawara (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hawara) in the Fayum Basin (hence the common name) and the Hadrianic (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hadrian) Roman (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ancient_Rome) city Antinoopolis (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antinoopolis). "Faiyum Portraits" is generally thought of as a stylistic, rather than a geographic, description. While painted cartonnage (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cartonnage) mummy cases date back to pharaonic times, the Faiyum mummy portraits were an innovation dating to the time of the Roman occupation of Egypt.[1] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fayum_mummy_portraits#cite_note-1)
The portraits date to the Imperial Roman era (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roman_Empire), from the late 1st century BC or the early 1st century AD onwards. It is not clear when their production ended, but recent research suggests the middle of the 3rd century. They are among the largest groups among the very few survivors of the highly prestigious panel painting (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Panel_painting) tradition of the classical world, which was continued into Byzantine (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Byzantine_art) and Western traditions in the post-classical world, including the local tradition of Coptic iconography (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coptic_art) in Egypt.
The portraits covered the faces of bodies that were mummified for burial. Extant examples indicate that they were mounted into the bands of cloth that were used to wrap the bodies. Almost all have now been detached from the mummies.[2] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fayum_mummy_portraits#cite_note-2) They usually depict a single person, showing the head, or head and upper chest, viewed frontally. In terms of artistic tradition, the images clearly derive more from Greco-Roman (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greco-Roman_world) artistic traditions (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ancient_Roman_art) than Egyptian ones (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ancient_Egyptian_art).[3] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fayum_mummy_portraits#cite_note-3)
Two groups of portraits can be distinguished by technique: one of encaustic (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Encaustic_painting) (wax) paintings, the other in tempera (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tempera). The former are usually of higher quality.
About 900 mummy portraits are known at present.[4] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fayum_mummy_portraits#cite_note-4) The majority were found in the necropoleis (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Necropolis) of Faiyum. Due to the hot dry Egyptian climate, the paintings are frequently very well preserved, often retaining their brilliant colours seemingly unfaded by time.

Now let's take a view of Gultekin and his family:

http://muslimnews24.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/03/turk-wa.jpg

Bornoz

07-12-2018, 07:46 PM

Greetings to my cultural brothers. I know that some of them exist in here

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f9bJ3j7aFw4

Sealin

07-12-2018, 07:56 PM

Greetings back Proud Human.

Petros Houhoulis

07-12-2018, 07:57 PM

Mycenaeans with I are not real Greeks than. It was common for Greeks to assimilate neighboring tribes.

I is native to the Balkans and Europe. J came from Asia. Both J and I have branched out of H and they are both forming a straight line from the Middle East (J1) Greece (J2) the Balkans (I2) all the way to Scandinavia (I1)

During the Mycenaean era, there were nobody named "Greek" or "Hellene", therefore your suggestion that the Greeks assimilated others back then is... Well... STOOPID.

Furthermore, the Proto-Greeks who imposed their Indo-European Greek language upon the natives originated in Ukraine, and most likely they included those I invaders to Greece, not the other way around.

So, you are wrong in all counts.

Sealin

07-12-2018, 08:00 PM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8eVqcXQmHfo

Tauromachos

07-12-2018, 08:03 PM

No they didn't

The whole concept of an Indo European invasion from the Ukrainian steppes is an outdated concept and is challenged more and more in scientific circles.

We don't even know if some parts of the Neolitihic Farmers for example the Aegean Anatolian Farmers who are the major source of Neolithic input in Greece
but even Balkans and other parts of Europe did already spoke an Indo European language.

The whole question with Indo Europeans and how the Indo European languages orignated and spread is much more complex and multifacceted than
alot of folks were made to believe for so long

Livin

07-12-2018, 08:07 PM

Greetings to my cultural brothers. I know that some of them exist in here

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f9bJ3j7aFw4

A real communist ;)

Bornoz

07-12-2018, 08:07 PM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8eVqcXQmHfo

Çok güzelmiş

Bornoz

07-12-2018, 08:09 PM

A real communist ;)

Lul :lol:
Why not? Don't we both play horon :lol:

Livin

07-12-2018, 08:13 PM

Lul :lol:
Why not? Don't we both play horon :lol:

https://youtu.be/OmIdcwc3L_U

Tauromachos

07-12-2018, 08:16 PM

Pontians and Cretans together

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ifZDt8fjPSM

Sealin

07-12-2018, 08:44 PM

Nice songs. Here is one in Turkish/Pontic (a few words).

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=62vDl5dWl8g

This music group Imera (from Trabzon) was made by friends, their interests for music brought them together. They became popular in Turkey in a short period of time. The style they got is very much cultural, like the songs they make and-or sing. They once said in a interview that they always seek for approvement by their elders about the songs. If the grandma/grandpa likes it, they see it as a sign, like: "Yes, if they like it, everyone is gonna like it. It means that we did a good job to show our culture/style like it is."

Rgvgjhvv

07-13-2018, 02:45 AM

Hey man do you mind sharing a link or whatever you found about this?

Petros Houhoulis

07-14-2018, 01:55 AM

No they didn't

The whole concept of an Indo European invasion from the Ukrainian steppes is an outdated concept and is challenged more and more in scientific circles.

The whole question with Indo Europeans and how the Indo European languages orignated and spread is much more complex and multifacceted than
alot of folks were made to believe for so long

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indo-European_migrations

Indo-European migrations were the migrations of pastoral (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pastoralism) peoples speaking the Proto-Indo-European language (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proto-Indo-European_language) (PIE), who departed from the Yamnaya (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yamnaya) and related cultures in the PonticCaspian steppe (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pontic%E2%80%93Caspian_steppe), starting at <abbr title="circa">c.</abbr> 4000 BCE. Their descendants spread throughout Europe (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Europe) and parts of Asia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asia), forming new cultures with the people they met on their way, including the Corded Ware culture (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corded_Ware_culture) in Northern Europe (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Northern_Europe) and the Vedic culture (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vedic_culture) in the Indian subcontinent (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indian_subcontinent). These migrations ultimately seeded the cultures and languages of most of Europe, Greater Iran (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greater_Iran), and much of the Indian subcontinent (and subsequently resulted in the largest and most broadly spoken language family in the world).
Modern knowledge of these migrations is based on data from linguistics (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linguistics), archaeology (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Archaeology), anthropology (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anthropology) and genetics (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genetics). Linguistics describes the similarities between various languages, and the linguistic laws at play in the changes (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Language_change) in those languages (see Indo-European studies (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indo-European_studies)). Archaeological data, describes the spread of the Proto-Indo-European language and culture (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proto-Indo-European_society) in several stages from the Proto-Indo-European homeland (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proto-Indo-European_homeland) (probably situated in the PonticCaspian steppe (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pontic%E2%80%93Caspian_steppe)), into Western Europe (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Western_Europe), into Central (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Central_Asia), South (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/South_Asia) and (very sporadically) Eastern Asia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eastern_Asia), by migrations, and by language shift through elite-recruitment as described by anthropological research.[2] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indo-European_migrations#cite_note-FOOTNOTEAnthony2007-2)[3] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indo-European_migrations#cite_note-FOOTNOTEBeckwith2009-3) Recent genetic research has a growing contribution to the understanding of the historical relations between various historical cultures.
The Indo-European languages and cultures spread in various stages. Early migrations from c. 42003000 BCE brought archaic proto-Indo-European into the lower Danube valley (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cucuteni-Trypillian_culture),[4] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indo-European_migrations#cite_note-FOOTNOTEAnthony2007133-4) Anatolia,[5] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indo-European_migrations#cite_note-FOOTNOTEAnthony2007262-5)[6] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indo-European_migrations#cite_note-FOOTNOTEParpola201537_f.-6)[web 1] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indo-European_migrations#cite_note-EB_AnatLang-7) and the Altai region.[7] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indo-European_migrations#cite_note-FOOTNOTEMalloryAdams19974-8)
Proto-Celtic (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proto-Celtic) and Proto-Italic (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proto-Italic) probably developed in and spread from Central Europe into western Europe after new Yamnaya migrations into the Danube Valley,[8] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indo-European_migrations#cite_note-FOOTNOTEMallory1999108_f.-9)[9] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indo-European_migrations#cite_note-FOOTNOTEAnthony2007345,_361367-10) while Proto-Germanic (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proto-Germanic) and Proto-Balto-Slavic (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proto-Balto-Slavic) may have developed east of the Carpathian mountains, at present-day Ukraine,[10] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indo-European_migrations#cite_note-FOOTNOTEAnthony2007368,_380-11) moving north and spreading with the Corded Ware culture (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corded_Ware_culture) in Middle Europe (third millennium BCE).[11] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indo-European_migrations#cite_note-FOOTNOTEMallory1999108,_244250-12)[12] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indo-European_migrations#cite_note-FOOTNOTEAnthony2007360-13)[web 2] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indo-European_migrations#cite_note-Baldia06-14)[13] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indo-European_migrations#cite_note-FOOTNOTEHaak2015-15)[web 3] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indo-European_migrations#cite_note-MPG_mass_migration-16)[web 4] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indo-European_migrations#cite_note-Nature_EC-17) Alternatively, a European branch of Indo-European dialects, termed "North-west Indo-European" and associated with the Beaker culture, may have been ancestral to not only Celtic and Italic, but also to Germanic and Balto-Slavic.[14] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indo-European_migrations#cite_note-Mallory_(2013)-18)
The Indo-Iranian language (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indo-Iranian_language) and culture emerged at the Sintashta culture (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sintashta_culture) (c. 21001800 BCE), at the eastern border of the Yamna horizon (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yamna_culture) and the Corded ware culture, growing into the Andronovo culture (c. 1800800 BCE). Indo-Aryans moved into the BactriaMargiana Archaeological Complex (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bactria%E2%80%93Margiana_Archaeological_Complex) (c. 23001700 BCE) and spread to the Levant (Mitanni (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mitanni)), northern India (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Northern_India) (Vedic people (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vedic_people), c. 1500 BCE), and China (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/China) (Wusun (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wusun)).[3] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indo-European_migrations#cite_note-FOOTNOTEBeckwith2009-3) The Iranian languages (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iranian_languages) spread throughout the steppes with the Scyths (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scyths) and into Iran (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iran) with the Medes (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Medes), Parthians (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parthians) and Persians (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Persians) from ca. 800 BCE.[3] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indo-European_migrations#cite_note-FOOTNOTEBeckwith2009-3)

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/5/5a/IE_expansion.png/260px-IE_expansion.png

Sealin

07-27-2018, 06:06 PM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f9uKfDlB0Lw

Rgvgjhvv

08-04-2018, 06:26 PM

Everyone can share here everything what has to do with Pontic Greeks. It could be history, pictures of our beautiful places, culture, folk dance, kitchen..

What do you consider the difference between a Turk from Trabzon and a Greek from Trabzon? You identify as Pontic Greek, does that mean you have Greek ancestry? Whereas, other Turks in that area do not? Or is it simply 100% a cultural thing?

DarkSecret

08-04-2018, 06:34 PM

Is Horon Pontic Rum or Laz or Turkic?

Livin

08-04-2018, 06:39 PM

Is Horon Pontic Rum or Laz or Turkic?

Its a mix of caucasian,iranian,ancient greek and anatolian!

KingOf

08-05-2018, 11:27 AM

Hey man do you mind sharing a link or whatever you found about this?

it's in Greek:

http://www.kotsari.com/pontos/poleis-oikismoi-xoria-perioxes-toponimia-tou-pontou/76-adapazar-atapazar-nikomidia-poleis-xoria-oikismoi-pontou-karasou

Sealin

08-05-2018, 03:08 PM

What do you consider the difference between a Türk from Trabzon and a Greek from Trabzon? You identify as Pontic Greek, does that mean you have Greek ancestry? Whereas, other Turks in that area do not? Or is it simply 100% a cultural thing?

There is no cultural difference between a Trabzon Rum (what we call here) and a Türk from Trabzon, beside the language. The Rum people here in general speak both Turkish and Romeika (as I said earlier, unfortunately, this language is dying. Mostly the older generation is speaking it fluently and some of them don't speak Turkish. There are many words from Romeika which Turks here also use. As I said, there is no cultural difference here between us, because everyone lives by the culture of Trabzon itself.) The only difference could be religion. There are Pontic Greeks outside Trabzon (but who are originally from here) who are Christian, here in Trabzon they are Muslim mostly.

I identify myself as Turkic and Pontic Greek (Rum), that does mean that I have Anatolian Greek ancestry. About the rest of Trabzon, everyone consider them self here Türk, a Turkish citizen at first. Which also is true. Not everyone here is Rum or Turkish/Rum mixed. At the same time, some people could be Turkish/Rum mixed and not knowing it. Which is completely normal. Again it all ends at the reason because of the culture of Trabzon and everybody living by it, you see no difference. Even if you would want to separate people in groups, it would not work for a second here.

Rgvgjhvv

08-05-2018, 04:01 PM

So in your personal case, you are considered 'mixed' then. Historically, Greeks from Trabzon were the dominant population? Or was it mixed even back then? Are the Turks which can trace their ancestry hundreds of years in Trabzon, Hellenized Turks? Or would the Pontic Greeks of that area have Turkish ancestry?

From what I understand it was mostly a religious thing, and it would be unlikely a Muslim mix with a Christian for religious, economic, societal reason etc. Unless of course the Christian converted to Islam. Was that the case in Trabzon as well?

Böri

08-05-2018, 09:15 PM

This thread would stand better in the Greece forum, after all.

Rgvgjhvv

08-05-2018, 09:16 PM

This thread would stand better in the Greece forum, after all.

bUt i tHouGHt We wEre Aall FriEndS

Böri

08-05-2018, 09:19 PM

bUt i tHouGHt We wEre Aall FriEndS

wE sUrE ARez FrİenDz.
Overwhelming majority of Pontic Greeks live in Hellas and they are a Greek ethnicity. So that's more related with Greece than Turkey after all. Just like a thread about Balkan Turks fit better Turkish forum than Bulgaria forum.

Marmara

08-05-2018, 09:25 PM

Why are you poisoning the thread?

Böri

08-05-2018, 09:27 PM

Why are you poisoning the thread?

Do people need your green light to post out?
That thread turning into a trolling of Turkish forum.
Its place it's the Greek forum.

DarkSecret

08-05-2018, 09:29 PM

This thread would stand better in the Greece forum, after all.

Yeah according to you Laz threads belong to Georgian section too. Only Turkics belong to Turkey. Yeah sure. Your secret agenda won't work on here sorry. Your separatist motives are very clear under your thin nationalist cloak that you are hiding in.